/int/ - International

At least we got czechia.

>>13784 Based

Without order nothing exists but destruction nothing evolves

>>13787 >[T]he Renaissance and Reformation were primarily results, made possible only by the preceding decadence; but, far from being a readjustment, they marked an even deeper falling off, consummating, as they did, the definitive rupture with the traditional spirit, the former in the domain of the arts and sciences, and the latter in that of religion itself, although this was the domain in which it might have seemed the most difficult to conceive of such a rupture. >[I]t is in the realm of religion that we shall have to consider the revolt against the traditional outlook, a revolt which, when it had acquired a definite form, became known as Protestantism; it is not difficult to see that this is a manifestation of individualism; indeed one could call it individualism as applied to religion. >Protestantism, like the modern world, is built upon mere negation, the same negation of principles that is the essence of individualism; and one can see in it one more example, and a most striking one, of the state of anarchy and dissolution that has arisen from this negation. >Protestantism denied the authority of the organization qualified to interpret legitimately the religious tradition of the West and in its place claimed to set up 'free criticism', that is to say any interpretations resulting from private judgement, even that of the ignorant and incompetent, and based exclusively on the exercise of human reason. >[T]he Protestant movement has in this way contributed very largely toward the destruction of this very authority—that is to say of the minimum of tradition that it still retained.

>>13787 *without destruction!

I think the holocaust was also pretty bad.

>>13789 > and in its place claimed to set up 'free criticism', that is to say any interpretations resulting from private judgement, even that of the ignorant and incompetent, And thus Catholicism is deeply elitist and undemocratic, and Protestantism is pluralistic, democratic and set the stage for the Enlightenment.

The reformation was ok politically, but the religious/theological side was garbage. It was so garbage that it managed to kill Christianity and birth liberalism in its place.

>>13811 It was the church that created the problem by being totally corrupt and oppressive, look at the Borgias or the Hussite crusade. You could be killed for reading the Bible in a language somebody would actually understand, that's ISIS tier. And then it was enlightenment liberalism that birthed the necessary reformation.

I just can't wrap my mind around it that people still argue about fairytales and arguments that took place hundreds of years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_cross

>>14016 IS tier

>>14017 ISIS literally serves the Antichrist. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2016-000983_EN.html

Well, yeah but not really. First it happened with the rise of Chrstianity. Then with iconoclasm and only then with protestantism. That's just what all middle eastern religions do because art is haram for some reason.

>>13784 Jan Hus, eh? wagons in the circle, my fellow Hussites! let's kick 'em crusaders' asses!

>>14039 Unfortunately Von Mansfeld and the other generals of the Bohemian Estates 200 years later didn't have a fraction of the military genius - or rather zeal - of some of those Hussite leaders, especially Zizka, so they were Habsburg'd for good.

>>14041 >200 years later at his point my knowledge of the Czech history stops I guess they teach it about Hussites at schools here because the Commonwealth was involved

>>14042 The Thirty Years War was sparked in 1618 by the defenestration of two Habsburg officials in Prague by the Protestant Bohemian Nobility which were eventually all executed because the leadership was incompetent, broke and they had hoped other Protestant powers would come to their aid but only the Netherlands really did. After that Bohemia became a definite Austrian subject until 1918. One of the very few decisive battles/outcomes of the Thirty Years War.

>>14045 >defenestration is it how this word was invented? >The Thirty Years War this one I've heard about. it's like one of bloodiest wars in all of the history of humanity.

>>14048 It's been part of Bohemian judicature before that, it's a very Czech thing apparently. Even in KC:D2, the protagonist throws the villain out of a castle window in a cutscene which was pretty cool.

>>13837 Yeah. Say about protestantism what you want, but the catholic church was deeply rotten at the time. It needed competition to somewhat come to its senses.

>>14542 Sure, but you don’t have to unleash war and bloodshed and found a new Church to improve the old one. Protestants went completely overboard.

>>14543 You can't agree and disagree at the same time.

>>14543 According to what I read, religion wasn't the main reason for the war, more like a convenient label for the two factions.

>>14550 Quite right if we're talking 1618+. Saxony for example was on the Imperial side, despite being THE Protestant state at the time. It was also common for surrendering troops to then join the winning side, so after a certain point the armies weren't homogeneous anymore and they had a don't ask, don't tell policy. France as well funded the Protestant states like Sweden because of their rivalry with Habsburgs and in the end outright joined the war on their side. It was all realpolitik at the expense of the peasantry.

>>14553 Saxony switched sides later, though.

>>14550 Even if it wasn’t the main reason, you can’t deny that Luther‘s polemics against Catholicism rather escalated it instead of calming everyone down.

>>14556 Rightfully so. Fucking catholic retard

>>14556 He had some pretty good points though. Also, isn't the Catholic Church today pretty much what Luther envisioned? I'm not a Lutheran, so I'm not sure which of his demands were eventually met and which weren't, but I feel like it's most of them. Maybe a Lutheran can weigh in.

>>14567 >Also, isn't the Catholic Church today pretty much what Luther envisioned? The current pope wanted to give an award to a lifelong proponent of abortion. So I doubt it.

>>14569 We cryomancers nao